Why does Sardinia-Piedmont tag exist? (2024)

OldmansHQ said:

Lol it must have seriously bothered you for you to come here and make an account and then a thread just for this. Why not?

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I'm definitely not bothered, since I'm playing as Sardinia-Piedmont right now i discovered that it never existed, so i came here to ask. Sorry for taking up your time.

Robska said:

So is the wikipedia wrong on this? according to wikipedia it did exist.

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There's no Sardinia-Piedmont page on wikipedia, just "Kingdom of Sardinia". After the war of spanish succession Savoy and Sardinia have been ruled under personal union, just that. It would be like a Austria-Bohemia-Hungary or a Great Britain-Ireland tag

Idk about english but in french it does exist, between 1720 and 1861. Maybe it differs on language ?

Hawkslime said:

I guess Piedmont wasn´t part of Sardinia in the same way Aragon existed till 1707 or the same way the Kingdom of Bohemia existed until 1918; it was just an additional title and a teritorry with slightly more autonomy

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What do you mean? The principality of Piedmont was incorporated into the duchy of Savoy in 1418, before the start of the game. The the duke of Savoy gained the kingdom of Sardinia in 1720, but just like Brandenburg and Prussia couldn't be king inside the HRE, because the only kingdom allowed was Bohemia. Finally, in 1847, when the HRE was no more, Savoy was incorporated into Sardinia, and 14 years later the king of Sardina created the kingdom of Italy.

Blust said:

Idk about english but in french it does exist, between 1720 and 1861. Maybe it differs on language ?

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Of course the expression Piedmont-Sardinia exists, but in reality it was just a Savoy-led Kingdom of Sardinia

Wikipedia said:

The formal name of such composite state was the "States of His Majesty the King of Sardinia" and is referred to as... Piedmont-Sardinia... to emphasise that the island of Sardinia had always been of secondary importance to the monarchy.[

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valexar said:

Of course the expression Piedmont-Sardinia exists, but in reality it was just a Savoy-led Kingdom of Sardinia

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Right, and the Savoy-led Kingdom of Sardinia is what Piedmont-Sardinia refers to, so it's the term used in game.

It's a tag that existed since EU3. It's in EU4 because EU4 was built upon EU3. There's also a tag called Etruria that probably wouldn't be added nowadays, but it was added in EU3 and so it still exists in EU4. Similarly, Revolutionary France was a separate tag in early days of EU4. Some tags get repurposed, but those that appear in the game's history files generally don't get repurposed (Revolutionary France being the exception).

This is the real, Doylist, answer. Any Watsonian answer is just a justification.

valexar said:

I'm definitely not bothered, since I'm playing as Sardinia-Piedmont right now i discovered that it never existed, so i came here to ask. Sorry for taking up your time.

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Don't sweat it. I clicked the thread on my own. It's all jokes. Sometimes I'm really bothered by trivialities.

Republic of Mercury said:

Right, and the Savoy-led Kingdom of Sardinia is what Piedmont-Sardinia refers to, so it's the term used in game.

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But the game has personal unions, why would you need a separate tag?

WeissRaben said:

It's a weird thing. The most common name was "Lands of the King of Sardinia", up to the Perfect Union of 1847, and the official name was in fact "Kingdom of Sardinia". The issue is, this is a game, not just a history book, and "Sardinia" alone points at something the Kingdom wasn't - a state centered on the island, rather than on Turin. The question would be "why do I need to be/own Piedmont, to form Sardinia"? And it would make sense. Sardinia-Piedmont is an eminently historiographical term, but one that helps figuring out the lay of the land, so to speak.

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This makes sense, but i think that, since this situation is very similar to Brandenburg-Prussia, it should be treated in a similar way. Not that I think it's a problem, just wanted to hear some opinions.

valexar said:

Okay, that colour is cool

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Yes!

valexar said:

Okay, that colour is cool, but the duke of Savoy ruled over the kingdom of Sardinia from 1720 to 1847, then Savoy was incorporated into Sardinia. Unlike Spain or the PLC there's never been such a title in history, so: why does it exist?

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English history books use Sardinia-Piedmont so I don't see what the issue is.

valexar said:

What do you mean? The principality of Piedmont was incorporated into the duchy of Savoy in 1418, before the start of the game. The the duke of Savoy gained the kingdom of Sardinia in 1720, but just like Brandenburg and Prussia couldn't be king inside the HRE, because the only kingdom allowed was Bohemia. Finally, in 1847, when the HRE was no more, Savoy was incorporated into Sardinia, and 14 years later the king of Sardina created the kingdom of Italy.

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Savoy wasn't in the HRE by then? And it was the old kingdom of Sardinia & Corsica he appealed to, not making a new title so Savoy would be seen as the equal of other nations, which is why Savoy originally took Sicily, but then it was swapped for Sardinia due to Hapsburgs wanting Sicily back

Battlex said:

Savoy wasn't in the HRE by then? And it was the old kingdom of Sardinia & Corsica he appealed to, not making a new title so Savoy would be seen as the equal of other nations, which is why Savoy originally took Sicily, but then it was swapped for Sardinia due to Hapsburgs wanting Sicily back

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Savoy was in the HRE when its Duke was trying to become a King, Savoy is notable for having not left the HRE like the rest of Italy slid out from HRE functions

valexar said:

Of course the expression Piedmont-Sardinia exists, but in reality it was just a Savoy-led Kingdom of Sardinia

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So...? That's how worked unions. When you unite Poland and Lithuania, you get the Two-Nations Republic tag too. Same for Castile + Aragon = Spain. I don't understand what you are confused about.

Blust said:

So...? That's how worked unions. When you unite Poland and Lithuania, you get the Two-Nations Republic tag too. Same for Castile + Aragon = Spain. I don't understand what you are confused about.

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Castile-Aragon's personal union ended in 1715, when the kingdom of Spain was created. The same goes for the PLC, in 1569. On the other hand we have Sardinian-Piedmontese personal union, that lasted until 1847, when the kingdom of Sardinia incorporated the duchy of Savoy. No new kingdom was created. Why do we have Sardinia-Piedmont but no Brandenburg-Prussia or Austria-Bohemia-Hungary? I'm confused about this inconsistency.